Cautious Clay

Photography by Daniel Topete. Interview by Heather Hawke.

 

Born and raised in Cleveland, OH, Joshua Karpeh first found music through his training in classical flute, which opened the doors to blues and jazz, as his mom wanted him to be super well rounded, he also ran track, was a pole vaulter, and sailed. It was while attending D.C.’s George Washington University that he added many other instruments as well as songwriting and production to his repertoire. He then moved to NYC where up until June 2017, he worked as a real estate agent and then in advertising. In September 2017, months after quitting his day job to finally go all-in on music, he quietly released his debut single, “Cold War,” on SoundCloud under the name Cautious Clay.

He’s since released his debut EP Blood Type in February 2018 and followed it up with Resonance that May. In early 2019 he released his acclaimed Table Of Context EP that features the single “REASONS” with Tobias Jesso Jr. and Hudson Mohawke. Last August he released a brand new track co-written and produced with John Mayer and featured on the 13 Reasons Why season three soundtrack called “Swim Home” and he quickly followed that up in September with another new track “Erase” (featured on EA’s “FIFA 20”). Josh has toured the world over and collaborated and shared stages with the likes of John Mayer, Omar Apollo, Tayla Parx, AlunaGeorge, Petit Biscuit, Lil Silva and more.

 

I want to start from the beginning. What was your childhood like growing up in Cleveland? Was creativity a part of your childhood?  

Yeah growing up in Cleveland was definitely creative for me, a lot of Legos and building blocks. Movies and music hit me very early and my mom definitely nurtured that.

I know you’ve been doing music pretty much since you were seven, but tell me about your musical upbringing. When did you first become aware that music was going to be a part of your life? What was your formal / not formal music education like growing up?

I’ve been fortunate that music for me has always been pretty easy to pick up on. By the time I was in high school I really became aware of this because I was playing saxophone after only a couple months of starting on it at a higher level than some of my peers who had been playing for a longer. From a listening standpoint I always took interest in a lot of different genres as a kid and became sort of obsessed with jazz in my teens.

Let’s talk about your formative years. What was the very first concert you attended? Did you play any sports / go to summer camps? What music were you and your friends listening to in middle school / high school? Were there posers on your wall when you were growing up?

My first concert that I went to was JET at House of Blues in Cleveland. In high school I played soccer, pole vaulted the track team, and swam. I went to a musical summer camp up in Maine too.

When did you move to the NYC / Brooklyn area? I’ve read that you live in a “strapping four-story brownstone” in Crown Heights with 12 roommates that’s “ridiculously organized, with fixed gear bikes lining the living space and basil and grapes sprouting in the garden out back.” How do you think that living situation has impacted your music creativity? Do you find synergy amongst all of you? 

I moved to NYC 5 years ago. I feel like my living situation has kept me very grounded because everyone does different stuff and at the end of the day we all can relate to wanting to keep a community at the house.

It’s well documented that you had a few years of 9-5pm 401k type jobs before releasing music of your own in Sept 2017, just a few months after quitting the last of that type of job. What was your mindset around then? What made you decide it was time to quit your job? 

I had just started getting asked to produce more frequently because an A&R from Korea hit me up on SoundCloud and long story short I got the opportunity to go to Seoul to produce music for a week. After that I sort of felt like it was important for me to start taking these opportunities more seriously so quitting my day job felt right and I knew I didn’t wanna be doing what I was doing.

Since you were producing for other people before, I think, you made music of your own did you have a certain set of rules/ limitations you felt needed to be maintained / discarded for your music?

Yes definitely in certain circumstances but it was also the rules that I made up in my head based on whether I was singing or just producing instrumental music at the time.

What’s been the biggest hardship that’s helped inspire your work? 

Definitely being fired from multiple jobs and feeling inadequate in the real world post college.

 

Let’s talk specifically about your debut album, Blood Type. I’ve read that most of your lyrics come from a stream of conscience. Where were you at physically, mentally when you wrote them? Was there an event or a specific timeframe where a large chunk of the lyricism came out? 

It was definitely in the time period where I just started a job and the physical and mental aspects of what I was doing were very exhausting. I had to stand a lot and was required to do a lot more paperwork than I thought was even possible in a seven hour day. On top of that I was in a long-distance relationship and felt the strain of that, so a lot of my lyrics were very palpable experiences.

How about with these newer releases (follow up EP Resonance and your Table of Context EP)? Has the writing process something that’s shifted for you over time? 

I feel like my writing process has stayed rooted in stream of consciousness but I’ve become a little bit more organized in how I arrange those thoughts. Also, because I’m doing this now in a much more full-time capacity, living my life outside of music is a much more intentional thing than it used to be and I find this time to be important to keeping my writing process and perspective fresh.

One of your most recent tracks, “Swim Home”, was co-written and produced with John Mayer. How did this collab come about and what was the creative / recording process like for that track? 

John started following me on IG and then I hit him up. From there we just set up a time to meet and work. We made “Swim Home” the same day we met and I took it home to finish it up. I had just started collaborating with people and I had never really experienced and more fluid writing & production process. When I took the song home I felt like I knew exactly what I needed to do to finish it out. John has a super creative and inviting way of collaborating.

“Swim Home” is the first track from the forthcoming 13 Reasons Why season 3 soundtrack, which isn’t the first time you’re music has gotten synched as it’s also been featured on HBO’s Insecure (which in my opinion is one of the best curated soundtracks). Are you personally a fan of soundtracks? Any standout memorable scenes from TV / movies that you recall certain tracks from by other artists?

I really love the Tarzan soundtrack that Phil Collins wrote when I was a kid as well as Seal’s “Fly Like an Eagle” cover for Space Jam.

You and Swedish production duo Jarami also collaborated on a groovy track “Post Mates.” Tell me about the creation of this track. Also, while we’re on the subject, what was the last thing you got delivered by Postmates? What’s your go to regular order?

Ha, ha. The track was actually quite a labor-intensive process we did a lot of different mixes before we actually came upon the one that was released. I really love those guys because we are all sticklers about how stuff should sound. I can’t exactly remember my last Postmates order but it was probably Thai food.

I hear that another album is coming along. How’s the creative process going? Will these be all new tracks or will some be from previous EP’s? Any piece of music that dates back to the first album/ EP’s or before?

Yeah! It’s coming together; I already have a title. I am constructing all the songs now, quite a few that are very special to me will be on it, mostly all of them unreleased.

You said in an interview that you want people to feel accepted, but to also have fun while listening to your music and that in some ways you want to “challenge people” with it. What do you mean by that? Also, as an artist yourself and also as a fan of music, do you think it’s an artist place to speak out on political topics, human rights, climate change, mental health, etc? 

It’s 100% important for artists to talk about politics and human rights because art is honest and emotional and people’s responses to politics and human rights are also honest and emotional. In my case I like to talk about being a person of color and the experiences that come with that, while also challenging the sonics & melodies of production in music.

It seems like you’ve gotten to travel quite a bit now. Do you feel that traveling influences you as an artist? Are you inspired by the places you go, or do you think your work would sound about the same no matter where you created it?

I genuinely feel like I adapt to the surroundings that I’m in. I don’t know if my music would sound dramatically different even in different surroundings. I try not to limit what I discuss with the sonics of what I do because a lot of the songs that I’m working on are normally finished (production & mix wise) at my house where I can reference everything.