Dizzy
Photography by Pooneh Ghana. Interview by Heather Hawke.
Emerging Oshawa, ON based band Dizzy is about to release their alluring sophomore album The Sun and Her Scorch (out July 31 via Royal Mountain Records). This new record follows their 2018 Juno Award-winning and critically lauded debut album, Baby Teeth.
The band’s formation all started when Katie Munshaw and Charlie Spencer, who met in ninth-grade math class and later sang in the school choir together, decided to form a band with Charlie’s siblings Mackenzie and Alex after graduating high school. After getting their start playing shows in Toronto, Dizzy landed a deal with Royal Mountain Records. Where Baby Teeth was Dizzy’s coming of age story, The Sun and Her Scorch – recorded at Quebec’s Mechanicland Studios and in Munshaw’s mother’s basement – taps into the band’s sense of growing confidence as well as touching on the qualities of themselves that they’re not very proud of (i.e. being jealous of your friends or pushing away the people who love you). The album was produced by Dizzy and mixed by Craig Silvey (Arcade Fire, Florence + The Machine).
Their new single “Roman Candles” is a captivating track that fully embraces youth in all of tremendous and abysmal glory.
K = Katie Munshaw
C = Charlie Spencer
M = Mack Spencer
A = Alex Spencer
Hi! So, things are pretty scary/crazy/stressful right now in the world…..As a musician / creative, how are you feeling? How has it changed your plans and how are you coping with this situation?
K: I’m having a rough go if I’m honest. It’s hard to stay positive when there’s so much uncertainty, especially surrounding live music. We’re meant to be touring this record and it’s hard to pretend like that isn’t upsetting. I’ve found that I’m resorting to things that make me feel comfortable. One of those things happens to be listening to music I listened to as an early teen. Lots of Avril Lavigne, Taylor Swift, Vanessa Carlton in my earbuds recently.
C: Hey! It’s been pretty weird. We had to cut a tour short, and any shows for the foreseeable future have been cancelled/ postponed. Feeling a bit uneasy because there seems to be no certainty surrounding future shows, which is stressful having just announced a record. Who knows, maybe we’ll make another one before we can tour this one.
M: Things are definitely crazy! When things suddenly went critical during the Europe tour, it was definitely frightening to see everything unfold as we scrambled to get home. The best I could think to do at the time was grab my bass and bring my gear home, as I live about two hours away from the rest of the band. As a musician I’ve been mostly trying to improve technique and learn better ways to save myself from straining my hands, as well as learning and writing on a little acoustic guitar I have here
A: From a creative standpoint things have felt muted, but are flourishing in a funny way. This lockdown period has forced its own writing retreat on musicians worldwide. It’s beautiful to see so many creative spirits adapting to these unprecedented times, continuing to write and be inspired despite the looming fear and stress. My coping tactics have consisted of animal crossing, puzzle building and reluctantly exercising to keep my mental health from stooping too low. Music has of course been integral throughout the quarantine so far.
I want to start from the beginning. What was your childhood like growing up in Oshawa, ON? Did creativity play a big part of your childhood?
K: I played a lot of sports mainly but realized I loved music very early on when I’d obsess over lyrics or wear out CD’s in my Walkman. I was really lucky that my elementary school had a songwriting club that I joined when I was in grade 6 or so. I was also a massive theatre geek.
C: Oshawa was a pretty normal place to grow up. Post-millennium suburbia, cookie cutter neighborhoods and not much to do but ride bikes and make pals. I’d like to think we had a pretty creative childhood, being lucky enough to have instruments in our hands from a very young age.
M: For some reason whenever I think about being a kid in Oshawa the first thing that comes to mind is water gun fights and racing bikes down suburban streets, but when we were indoors we were always immersed in music from our dad, who would introduce us to new instruments and sounds frequently.
A: Growing up in Oshawa was similar to many peoples suburban experiences I’m sure. We lived in a somewhat quiet neighborhood in which making your own fun was a big part of the day to day. Our Nana was an incredible creative role model of ours, teaching us how to paint and do various crafts during visits.
Tell me about your musical upbringing. What music did you grow up to? When did you first become aware that music was going to be a part of your life? What was your formal / not formal music education like growing up?
K: My parents put me in guitar and piano lessons when I was quite young but I never stuck with either for long. Music has always been about lyrics for me and I always thought of instruments as a vehicle for where the words would go, and not something I had too much interest in. I was raised in a family where it was encouraged to go to university and get a more traditional job so music never really seemed like an option. When I graduated grade 12 and Charlie asked me to start a band with him I was like “Oh? That’s an option?”
C: Lots of jazz, but lots of radio pop. I don’t remember becoming aware that music was going to be a big part of my life, it just kind of always has been. I started playing the drums when I was 6 years old, and took lessons for 3 or 4 years starting around age 10.
M: I had a difficult time finding my sound when I was young. Alex and Charlie often call me their “music baby” as my taste in music often came from a mix of both of theirs, and a lot of the music I discovered on my own felt like a hybrid of their interests. I felt like I knew music would be a huge part of our lives when the three of us would jam in our living room, and even more so when I joined our eighth grade jazz band with Charlie, and really started to dig into playing in an ensemble.
A: As a kid I quickly learned that music would come in many different packages. Exploring my parents discographies would give me genre whiplash before I knew what genres were. From my Dad’s side it was Pat Metheny, Weather Report, Miles Davis, and Mike Oldfield. Then my Mum got me through morning drives to school with Sarah Mclachlan, Shania Twain, and the occasional ABBA classic to name a handful. It’s hard to pinpoint the exact moment when I knew music was going to be the forefront of my passion. It’s always felt like a language that allowed me to express all the colours of my emotions unlike any other form of communication. Music education for me was a good mixture of both formal and informal; from jamming with friends on the curb, to learning to read music and perform with school bands and youth orchestras.
Let’s talk about your formative years. What was the very first concert you attended? Did you play any sports / go to summer camps? Were there posers on your wall when you were growing up?
K: Funnily enough my first concert was a SARS relief concert in Toronto. It was a rotating cast of Canadian artists on and off the stage. Sara McLachlan, Barenaked Ladies, Sum 41, and my idol at the time, Avril Lavigne.
C: I believe my very first concert was acclaimed Canadian children’s group Sharon, Lois & Bram when I was about 4 years old. I never played any organized sports, but always played football and other sports with neighborhood kids, and loved skateboarding. I didn’t really have any posters on my walls, but when I was like 13 I stuck a bunch of my parents old LPs on the walls of my room, not knowing half of the artists but looking back I realize how badass that collection of records was. Stuff like Carole King, Fleetwood Mac, Peter Gabriel, Michael Jackson, and Neil Young.
M: Owl City at the Kool Haus! I was a weird teenager. In my younger years I grew up struggling with a juvenile form of arthritis, and often avoided sports when I could, but I loved to cycle. My room was usually decorated with car posters. It still is, at least my apartment walls are, but I had also gotten into a bad habit of collecting records & hanging up the posters that come with. The tape’s never coming off those posters.
A: The very first concert I saw was Pat Metheny Group with my Dad. I must’ve been 8 or 9 years old. I wasn’t much of an athlete as a kid, but I did my best playing defence in road hockey. On my wall would’ve been Pink Floyd, Clapton, and various guitar related posters. I distinctly remember a Coheed and Cambria poster which I loved the look of, but I had no clue what their music sounded like.
When you were old enough to start seeking out music, where did you regularly find yourself (a certain record store / internet site / getting recommendations from a certain friend)? Who were some of the artists you first found and then were always on the lookout for?
K: YouTube was my place to discover new music. I would get home from school and look up lyric videos to my favorite songs and belt them out at the top of my lungs before my older brother got home from high school. And then from those videos I’d wander down the rabbit hole of suggested videos to discover new bands. My favorites were Taylor Swift, Vanessa Carlton, Avril Lavigne, Dixie Chicks, though I could go on and on and on.
C: Regrettably, I lot of my early music listening came from early online music pirating, before it became a shameful endeavor. Also loved shopping for CDs at Walmart and HMV. The first CD I ever bought was Blink 182’s Buddha, because I knew my brother liked Blink and so I figured I should too. Same went for most of my music listening influence when I was young, it was usually just whatever my older siblings were into at the time.
M: I’ve always been into the PC gaming community, and some of the first music I found growing up actually came from someone blasting music over their microphone in a game of Counter Strike. Growing up on the internet also meant many deep dives into YouTube channels and playlists, along with songs sent to me from friends I’d picked up along the way in an online game. When I started to dive into more of the Indie/Alternative scene and collect records, I had to convince myself not to ride my bike to the local record shop on a regular basis. Video games gave me Pendulum and Deadmau5, and I found bands like Bombay Bicycle Club and Son Lux from YouTube, Grooveshark until they killed it and Spotify when it came to Canada.
A: My sources for new music as a kid were shops like HMV/Sam The Record Man at the local mall. When the internet became more of a hit, I soon found myself downloading music on Kazaa etc. Often times I would flick through my Dad’s CD collection looking out for anything that had interesting album art. Hearing Mike Oldfield for the first time was huge for me as a budding guitarist. Such a haunting sound unlike what I was hearing on the radio at the time.
Describe your path to becoming involved with music. What’s your very first earliest musical memory? When was the first time you felt super inspired by music?
K: The first time I remember ever feeling anything from music was when I heard Paper Bag by Fiona Apple for the first time. I think I downloaded it accidentally on Limewire one day (lol) and when it started playing it was a lightbulb moment. I was probably in like great 6 but when she sings “He said it’s all in your head and I said so is everything but he didn’t get it” my 11 year old self was like okay this is AWESOME. Fiona GETS it. Whatever “it” was at that time for me. That song still is a pillar in my songwriting bible. Fiona is so special to me still.
CS: I’m not entirely sure of my earliest music memory, though I do remember singing songs for my family at get togethers. My earliest inspiration came when I started playing the drums, and becoming obsessed with and inspired by drummers like Buddy Rich, Neil Peart and Ringo Starr. Kind of all over the map with those.
A: One of my first creative experiences guitar-wise was sitting on the curb with a couple friends trying to work out how to play Blink 182 and Sum 41 licks on my Dad’s acoustic. When it was time to go inside, my Dad would show me how to work out Zeppelin songs, along with so many other classic rock tunes. Hearing Pink Floyd’s Dark Side Of The Moon for the first time was one of the most powerfully moving experiences I can remember. The theatre and melancholy in that record showed me how magical and deep music could be.
I read that Katie and Charlie met in ninth-grade math class, later sang together in the school choir, and upon graduating high school the two decided to start a band. Enlisting Charlie’s siblings Mackenzie and Alex. Is this the first music project for all of you? Would you say it was an organic union, or were you all actively looking to create music / start a band?
K: First band for me! We were all just sitting around the dinner table one night like “so uhhhh, do you wanna try writing music together?” It was pretty easy.
C: It was our first serious shot at a musical project. Katie and I has written songs together before Mack and Alex joined, but we only started really taking it seriously when Mack and Alex joined. I wouldn’t say it was super organic, I think I just realized I had two brothers who also played instruments, and I knew I could communicate well with them musically already, since we had played together most of our lives.
A: I played in several bands after high school, as well as top 40 type bar gigs. Dizzy came a little later for me, but would mark my first commercially viable project.
I heard that your debut album Baby Teeth was written right after high school, and then there was a lag in releasing it. How long was the writing/recording of Baby Teeth? How much did you, and the album, evolve in that time? Did this lag make you feel not quite as connected to the music? Did it make you see the music in a new light?
K: I think as a writer I shifted a lot after writing the album so the lag to release it was hard. It’s difficult to connect with old songs live but it’s a lot easier when an audience is giving you that energy back. It’s like fueling up in a video game. If I’m not into it at a show but someone in the audience is the feeling transfers to me. It’s one of my favorite things about playing live, and something I’ve learned to search for in a sea of people as an opening band who is usually playing to audiences who are waiting for you to take a hike so their favorite band can play their set.
A: Baby Teeth was a collection of ideas written across a period of 2 years or so. The lag that happened after it was finished did make us feel a little disconnected from the music when it came time to tour the record. Breathing life back into those songs was a challenge at times, but nonetheless a good performance learning curve for having to play the same material on the road night after night.
Let’s talk about your upcoming album The Sun and Her Scorch. What’s the band’s songwriting/creative process like? Are you always writing? Was there a specific moment when work on the new album began? Or does the line between the writing for both albums sort of blur? Was there an event or a specific timeframe where a large chunk of the lyricism came out?
K: We decided to really start working on the record last summer. We rented a cottage up in northern Ontario to hole up in. We set up all our instruments and just jammed for a week straight. We all brought little pieces of ideas and flushed them out together. Looking back it felt like the perfect place for a lot of the songs from the record to be born.
A: Our songwriting process is quite varied. It usually starts with a ‘spark’ from one of us in the form of a chord progression, guitar riff, lyrical or melodic idea. Sometimes a funky sample loop will be enough to build an entire song off of. As there are four of us writing at one time or another, there is usually an idea kicking around to work with when it comes time to build another record.
Did the writing process change since the last time you worked on music? Is that process something that’s shifted for you over time?
M: I definitely felt like the writing process became easier! The whole thing was in our hands to work on and with our experience writing the album in Sudbury fresh our minds, everything locked into place. I was at one point worried that going back into the writing room would feel difficult or forced, but we all quickly got into the groove of things and it felt like we were jamming in our parents basement again.
A: From my perspective, the songwriting process hasn’t changed fundamentally. I think we’ve just improved on the same system while making it more efficient and honest. I’d like to think we’ve got a real hold on how we work together; knowing when to push one another and when to ride out the vibe of a specific song.
Do you find it helpful to be intentional when it comes to writing the lyrics / music? Like “I’m going to sit down and work on a song.” Or is it more ephemeral, like you’ve been kicking something around in your head for days, weeks, months, and then suddenly it comes spilling out? Or is it a mixture of both?
K: Often it’ll start as an idea or a single word and then I stem off from there. The first couple lines are always pretty easy but the rest sometimes ends with me pulling my hair out sitting over my laptop. It’s very rare for an entire song to spill out of me. It’s really only happened once to me with a song off of TSAHS called Ten.
A: In my experience, songwriting has always been a mix of both the ephemeral and good old fashioned hard work. The initial spark of inspiration usually comes very naturally for me. If I’m lucky, that first idea will be enough for a verse and chorus of a song. Fleshing that into a fully formed structure is always the hard part. At that point in the process I have to consciously ask myself what I’d like to hear next, from an audience members perspective. All in all it’s a labor of love.
The Sun and Her Scorch was recorded at Quebec’s Mechanicland Studios and in Munshaw’s mother’s basement…What was it like recording at both places? With the closeness and confidence of the lyrics, do you think it helped to have recorded it where you felt a sense of safeness (in the basement) as well as in the studio?
K: We ended up recording and rerecording a lot of vocals at home because of that sense of comfortability. I like the way a studio provides a place for us as a band to get outside of our comfort zone and then we’ll bring it home to finish it and to ground it a bit.
C: The use of those two spaces was really a formulated necessity. We realized early in the writing process that these songs were meant to have live instruments like drums and pianos, so we knew we wanted to go to a studio like Mechanicland, and have the facilities to capture beautiful rooms sounds and grand piano. We also knew we could get a lot of the work done at home, so we didn’t stress about recording vocals and extra programming in the studio, and budgeted the majority of that time for live tracking. There is a sense of safeness in making a record at home, and there’s also a comfort of knowing you aren’t on a clock or wasting an engineer’s time while you browse through 500 kick samples.
A: Recording at Mechanicland Studios was a great experience. The live room is a small church hall full of history and warmth…a very enabling and welcoming space for creativity. The control room gave a cozy treehouse vibe that definitely helped us through the longer hours of crafting this second record. All of that said, there’s nothing like the comfort of recording back home. The DIY mindset we have at home fosters our creativity to a level that is harder to reach in a studio environment.
I read that for this album you all took an entirely self-directed approach to every aspect of the album’s creation which, in turn, included a lavish use of live instrumentation. What mindset did you have going into the creating / recording process? Did you feel any sort of limitations when writing or recording this album? Are there any interesting stories about the writing of the lyrics and/or the recordings?
K: We decided to get our friend Hannah (Luna Li) to play strings on a lot of tracks. It was really exciting to hear how those textures could light up a track. It was the first time Alex and Charlie had arranged strings so it was a total learning curve for them which was exciting and really rewarding when the parts turned out sick.
C: Our first record was fully electronic in its production, aside from some acoustic guitar and obviously electric guitar and bass. The mindset I had going into creating this record was that of not limiting ourselves to any specific instrumentation, and rather just finding what suited the songs best, sonically. If anything I would say it was more liberating than limiting, in the sense that nothing felt off-limits.
A: My mindset going into the second record was about taking a healthy step into more instrumental composition while retaining the signature sound we had on the first album. Part of the reason for this (for me) was to create some healthy limitations to the creative process. It’s so easy to get lost in digital/synthesized sounds simply because there are so many to choose from. When I sit down at the piano or guitar to write, the sound is contained within the parameters of that instrument. This makes it easier to get to work on the song itself without falling down a rabbit hole, hunting for a particular sound.
What was your favorite part about the writing / album creation process?
K: My favorite part was when we had just started writing at the cottage. There was no pressure to finish lyrics and ideas were just flinging across the living room. So much hope and positivity and excitement in-between kayak and spaghetti breaks.
C: I think arranging and recording backing vocals might be my favorite part of making a record. I like to arrange them on the fly, and pick out harmonies as I hear them. It can be super tedious and pain-staking, but the reward of hearing so many voices all layered together is so worth it. Recording strings was also really exciting, it was the first time Alex and I had arranged strings to be played by actual string players, so hearing those parts come to life was really cool.
M: The initial jamming. Just smashing stuff together and trying to come up with something coherent, it’s always full of laughs and excitement. At times it can feel like there’s nothing there but we’re often so creatively fueled, Katie is always bringing wild amazing things to the table while us three brothers goof about and make weird noises. It’s always great.
A: One of my favorite parts of creating a new album is that moment when we all realize together that the song we’re working on is a contender for the track list. There’s nothing like the validation that comes from expressing an idea and having it become a valid piece of work amongst the four of us.
Which songs were the easiest / most difficult to create? What are two or three songs you are most proud of on this record? Why?
K: “Ten” was the easiest for me. It flew out of me so quickly so I could really focus on the production side of things instead of getting hung up on lyrics. That song always very obvious with what it was supposed to sound like. The hardest was “Sunflower”. Lyrically that song was a nightmare for me since the melody is a bit strange. Probably the longest I’ve ever worked on lyrics and was a really negative experience self-confidence wise.
A: For me, one of the easier songs to create would’ve been “Roman Candles”. It started as a simple piano idea I came up with one afternoon. This song felt like it fell into place so naturally and it shaped up just like I’d hoped it would. A tougher song to make was “Daylight Savings Time”, as the conception of this track took a good bit of brainstorming. It sent us back to the drawing board a few times before it started to really hit a vibe we were hoping for instrumentally speaking. A song I’m most proud of would be “Primrose Hill” which has a slide guitar section that put me out of my comfort zone as a guitarist while showing me a side of the instrument that could widen my horizons creatively. I’m also very proud of “Roman Candles” simply from being able to see it grow into what it is now from the humble little piano idea it once was.
When and how did the album title The Sun and Her Scorch come about in the album creation process? What is the significance of the title?
K: The title is a lyric I pulled from “Ten”. In the song the line refers to the sun and it’s actual heat, but in relation to the record I felt like it was a pretty on the nose metaphor for myself and the ways I can be a jerk sometimes. It’s a topic a lot of the songs touch on.
I’m blown away by the video for “The Magician”! If I didn’t get told this video was shot in isolation, I’m not sure I’d be able to tell it was. It’s so polished and you can really tell you all put so much effort and passion into this. I know there are a lot of musicians / creatives trying to find ways to work around isolation because plans for shoots are being put on hold…What was the previous treatment for this video? Did you try to match the so called vibe/energy of that treatment or have to create a whole new concept? How long was this video in the making?
K: I’ll have to give all the credit to our director Marty [MacPhearson] for this one. We were meant to make a video in the U.K. at the end of our tour with Oh Wonder that was specific to the song and how it’s about a friend of mine who passed away. We were meant to act out scenes as memories of my time with her on earth. It was really heartbreaking to have to have to ditch that idea. I think I had more than one breakdown about it. But Marty saved the day with a whole new, visually beautiful concept, as he has before. He makes it very hard to tell that I am dancing in front of a bed sheet in my room while my sister watches from my bed eating Doritos.
Have you had any mentors along the way?
K: I can’t think of any in my own life. I look up to a lot of public females in general. Tavi Gevinson, Bjork, Joni Mitchell, Mitski. I often find myself wondering what they would do if I’m ever in a hard situation.
C: I can’t think of anyone I could classify as a mentor by definition, but I definitely idolize a lot of producer/musicians. Brian Eno, Jack Antonoff, Paul Epworth, Rostam Batmanglij to name a few. Aside from that, I try to absorb and learn as much as possible from anyone in music that I get to work with.
M: My own brothers are the best mentors I could ever have. Anything I couldn’t figure out and any sound I wanted to explore, I could and still can go to them. That and the little things other bands will tell you on the road – the life hacks. We’ve learned so much as a band from other bands.
A: Throughout my time being involved with music I’ve had mentors at every turn: My family, teachers, bandmates, producers and engineers met along the way. Every character has had some valuable piece of moral or wisdom to pass on to me. Their support has shaped me into the musician I am today and I am humbled and deeply thankful to have been given these gifts.
